Feb. 2, 1989

Dear David,

First of all, please give my warmest regards to your mother when you see her. She was right on your dad and I not flying many missions together. I’m pretty sure it was only five [ten, see note 1 below]. As a flight commander, I flew the lead aircraft on all my missions and my co-pilot's seat was always occupied with the mission commander, usually the Squadron C.O. or operations officer or one of the group staff. Therefore your father flew those five missions in the tail gunner's position and kept myself and the mission commander informed of the status of our formation. After talking with our Squadron Operations officer, we agreed that your father should be checked out and given his own crew as soon as possible. Your father was a natural and gifted pilot. I think it took 2 flights to do the job. You will note on the attached mission list that he flew with his own crew on Group Mission No. 15 on May 28, 1944 [see note 2 below].

Your dad probably told you that I was shot down on the August 8 mission and wound up in Stalag Luft One. Naturally I left behind all my records. Forty years later (1984) I attended my first 398th reunion in Rapid City, S.D. There I met my navigator who gave me a list of all the 398th missions. I was able to take this list and match it with my Form 5 (Flying Time Record) and figure out which missions I flew on. Such targets as Berlin, Munich, Bordeaux, Toulouse, and Brandenburg I hadn’t forgotten.

I can only think of a couple of things that I remember and that your dad probably told you about.

On the Berlin mission of June 21 we saw about 30 German fighters attack the group in front of us just as 4 American P-51s attacked them. Those 4 P-51 guys scattered German fighters all over the place. A short time later just east of Berlin as we were turning on the bomb run there was a B-17 doing loops. Each time at the top of the loop a guy would bail out. The centrifugal force of the lower part of the loop pinned them to the floor. I’m sure we counted 7 chutes.

On the Brandenburg mission of August 6, we were briefed to make a left turn immediately after bombs away. Having noticed that the 2 or 3 groups in front of us were being hit by very accurate flak, I elected to make a small right turn instead. Sure enough the flak meant for us went around to the left where we were supposed to be. A short time later I made a left turn and rejoined the bomber stream.

The next story your dad didn't know about although he was on the mission.

On June 25 we bombed. After bombs away we flew west to the French Coast line and finished the flight over the Atlantic Ocean. As was the normal procedure for the lead aircraft, I was on auto-pilot. With a warm sun shining on me, the steady drone of the engines and with nothing to do, I dropped off to sleep. A little later when I awoke, I discovered that Col. Simeral was also asleep. Needless to say I didn’t mention it to him or any one else for years.

I wish I could remember more. Why, I don’t know, but prison camp had more impact on me, apparently, because I remember more about that than combat.

Your dad joined us in Rapid City. He came in with two of his classmates: Jans and Jones [also Clarence King]. They can probably help you identify and find your dad’s crew members. I got re-acquainted with Ed Jones at the 50th anniversary of the B-17 in Seattle, Washington in 1985. He told me then that your dad had passed away. So, I assumed they probably have corresponded with each other over the years. I’m sure he will be able to help you some.

[On May 24, 1944], Jerome T. Jans was shot down over Berlin with Brodin’s crew and our Squadron Commander Major Judson Gray. Jans [and two others] survived. Both Jans and Jones are listed in the 398th directory.

When you talk to your mom, ask her to look for your dad’s Form 5’s for combat flying time. I’m sure it's with your dad’s records someplace.

The next reunion that you attend inquire about the video that was telecast nationally on D-Day 1984 (the 40th anniversary). Its title was “All Those Fine Young Men.” It includes actual combat film by the 8th A.F. and is narrated by several of the participants. You’ll want to make a copy (I have one).

Roger Freeman is an outstanding historian of the 8th A. F. and has written several books on it. One of which is “The Mighty Eight.” Another good book is titled “One Last Look.” My daughter has my copy and I can’t remember who wrote it.

I’m about run down now so I’ll sign off. I’d like to hear how you’re doing with your research. If I can be of any more help to you, let me know. I hope we meet at one of the reunions.

Sincerely,

Bob Hopkins

P.S. I visited your father and mother in Chicago about 1949 or 1950 about the time I graduated from Millikin University, Decatur, Illinois. I was recalled to active duty in 1951 and retired from the USAF June 30, 1973.

Interpretive Comments

1. Bob's recollection about Lt. Ed Jordan flying in the tail gunner position because the Squadron CO bumped him doesn't match with Ed's Individual Flight Records (Form 5's) or the 398th data records. According to the 398th data records, Ed flew 10 missions with Bob Hopkins through June 15, 1944. On three of those missions, 28 May, 5 June, and 12 June, there were CAs - Commanders of Aircraft listed on the Hopkins aircraft. These were Major R.K. Simeral, Squadron CO on 28 May and 5 June and Captain M.C. "Buddy" Wagner, Jr, Squadron Operations Officer on 12 June. On those days, Ed would have performed formation control duties in the tailgunner position for the CA. The 398th load lists show him in the tail on 28 May, and Ed's Form 5s for 5 June show Ed in the Tail Gunner position. However, he was the co-pilot and thus it appears those the Form 5's sometimes record hours as co-pilot even though one may not have not actually flown in the co-pilot seat. There were also days Hopkins flew and Ed didn't. And it is possible there are some discrepancies in the 398th data in listing the CAs.
2. The records appear to show that it took a bit longer than Bob recollected before Ed was promoted to pilot. On June 21st, Ed began sharing 1st pilot duties on missions and on June 23rd, 1944 Major Wagner and Captain Hopkins' concurred via letter that Lt. Ed Jordan had satisfactorily passed his flight check for "day and instrument flying, including emergency procedures." Ed was thus promoted to first pilot effective July 1st, 1944. See Lt. Ed Jordan's Mission Information section.

September 13, 1989

Dear David,

I am a little slow answering you letter. We were away for several weeks. I am the John Hobbs of the Cullinan crew, but I am not in that picture. The only one I recognize other than your father is “Rush” standing on the extreme left, who was probably co-piloting.

Your father and I left Rapid City as co-pilots and soon after arriving in combat were out of a job since Hopkins and Cullinan were lead pilots. Another ranking officer flew with them in place of a co-pilot. The two of us were the first two co-pilots checked out as combat airplane commanders. We then flew new crews on their 1st mission leaving the new co-pilot on the ground.

I do remember that your dad got his own crew but my memory fails me as to who was on that crew.

I flew most of my missions breaking in new crews (no easy task), but finally substituted for one airplane commander for a number of missions to finish my tour.

I was on 13 missions with your father but I never flew with him in the same plane. And I don’t have any mutual combat stories that I can remember.

Enclosed is a photocopy of our mission 26 August 1944 which shows the formations with both your dad’s and my plane.

Sorry I can’t be of more help.

John

Interpretive Comments

1. The 398th data shows John Hobbs flew four missions as co-pilot with Ed Jordan. These were: 11 August 1944 - Brest, 24 August 1944 - Kolleda, 25 August 1944 - Neubrandenberg, and 3 September 1944 - Ludwigshafen.

August 15, 1992

Dear David,

Please accept my sincere apology for not having answered you letter sooner, and thanks for the crew picture and other very interesting and noteworthy data you included with your picture.

David, we did meet in a breakfast line at the reunion in San Diego. I was honored to meet Ed's widow and son and I am sorry that we were not able to sit down and talk at length and become better acquainted. I was able to spend some time with Ed Jones and his wife but I believe that Ed informed me at the time that you and your mother were not available at that time because, as I remember, you were meeting with other family members or friends, be that as it may, let's hope there will be another opportunity.

I appreciate your sincere pride in what your dad accomplished in his lifetime. I had not known that he flew with United Airlines, but as I remember him I'm sure he proved to be a very valuable asset to United Airlines. I wish my association with your dad had been much closer and my memory was much better than it is to be able to add to what you already know about his wartime activities.

I'll re-read your letter as I am writing and try to comment where appropriate. I think first I should explain that I was a bombardier on a crew consisting of W.L. Scott (P) and E.W. Spitzer (CP). My crew proceeded to Nuthampstead in the same time frame as your dad and my crew's first mission was on 13 May 1944. After approximately 10 missions, as best as I can recall, my pilot, Scott, had to leave the crew and assumed an administrative job. My group then assumed that our co-pilot, Spitzer, would become pilot and take command of our crew. However, he had to be relieved from the crew for physical reasons (an operation of some sort, I believe) and we then were a crew without regular crew assigned pilots.

Unfortunately, though we flew with fine able pilots, it was somewhat bad for crew integrity that we never knew who would be in command on our next mission and in fact we on my own crew became fair game to fly with other crews as needed. I do know that you're dad was our pilot on the last mission, 3 September 1944, but I honestly can't tell you how many missions he may have been our pilot.

Comparing the mission lists you sent your dad's missions with my mission list I note that we flew on the same missions on days as follows: 25, 28 May; 3, 5, 12, 15 June; 6, 7, 8 July; 3, 6, 11, 16, 30 August and 3 September. I can only verify that your dad was our pilot on 3 September. I just can't remember how many of the other dates he may very well have been our pilot also. It was unfortunate our crew was placed in a position of uncertainty as to our integrity as a crew for the last half of our tour. I tried to hold the listed men together as a crew and they became extremely anxious when there was a possibility, when we only had a few missions left, that I was to be assigned another crew as "lead" bombardier. They got assistance from the flight surgeon in negotiating that.

You'll note, David, that the crew list of the 3 September mission, which was my last mission, shows me flying as navigator and Cross flying has togglier. Usually I was a bombardier but on this mission, when it was planned that all bombs would be dropped when the lead aircraft dropped, a bombardier wasn't needed and our gunner, Cross flew in the nose and "toggled" the bombs when the lead aircraft dropped. So I got one mission under my belt as navigator. The crew complement you see listed as of 3 September could very well have been pretty much the same on which dates of I have previously noted that your dad and I flew. I just don't have records and cannot recall

Thank you very much for the crew picture. The names from top L to R are Lt. Donald Rush (CP), Lt. W. William Taylor (B), Lt. John Naioti (N), and your Dad. Bottom L to R are T/Sgt C. L. Self (ENG), T/Sgt. S. J. Gresh (RO), S/Sgt. R. L. Morley (BTG), S/Sgt. J. D. Herman (TG) and I remember the face but can't recall the name of a the next gunner. Gresh died a couple years ago. Cross, listed on the 3 September crew, was killed in a private plane crashed shortly after the war. By the way, my rank was listed wrong on the 3 September mission as I was a first lieutenant by that time.

A friend, Dick Cowler, who was a tail gunner in the 390th B.G., and I made a trip to England in May of this year and looked up our base. If you have been to Nuthampstead you know there is not much left to be seen there. However my friend's base at Framingham had the control tower intact and other miscellaneous buildings and the local Memorial Association there had made a wonderful museum of the control tower. A young gentlemen of that English Memorial Association, named Merryn Wilson, is quite a devoted historian and sent me the papers I have enclosed. It is quite extraordinary that he sent this information on remembering our talking together and my mentioning the date of my last mission, September 3, 1944. And low and behold there was your dad's name as pilot on my last mission. So you never know when you might come across additional data to fill in memory gaps. He advised me that the source of the information is 16 mm microphone rolls which may be purchased from Maxwell Air Force Base at $20 per roll. Each film contains approximately 2000 intelligence documents and he listed the rolls pertaining to the 398th B.G. Group and dates of coverage.

If you weren't aware of those films, and I wasn't, he relates that they contain a wealth of information as you can see by the sample he sent me. They even have narratives from crew members. I couldn't get the full sheet of the aircraft and crew of the 3 September mission on copier I used, but you can see where they should be overlapped. David, I'm sorry that I haven't been able to tell you more but I do remember your dad as an excellent pilot, a true gentleman and an outstanding officer. I'm sorry we didn't get to know each other better but I do respect your maintaining a fond memory of your father and if at any time I can try to help fill in spaces, please call me. Please give my best wishes to your mother.

Very truly yours,

Bill Taylor

Interpretive Comments

1. Ed Jordan flew as co-pilot with the original W.L. Scott crew and E.W. Spitzer as pilot on 7 July and 8 July 1944. E.W. Spitzer may have also flown other missions with this crew. On 3 August 1944, Ed was assigned at pilot to this crew and flew most of his August missions with them.

December 2003

Dear Dave,

Looking thru the Flak News I saw your name and thought you might like to have these pictures of your parents.

They were taken in Rapid City, South Dakota.

Your Dad, Jerome Jans, Ed Jones and myself went to Salt Lake City from Lubbock Texas and from there to the 398th at Rapid City.

It seems they lost two crews so they took the co-pilots from the Squadron commanders to replace them. We four became the co-pilots for the squadron commanders.

This resulted in early promotions for each of us. The position called for 1st Lts. As soon as we had 90 days as 2nd Lt. we were promoted.

A little tale about your Dad after he became a Pilot. He came back from a mission on 3 engines. The next mission he came home on 2 engines. It seems the next one he only had one engine fully operational. The other pilots were kidding him, asking what he was going to do on the next mission. His answer, "Glide it Home".

The four of us survived the war.

Clarence King

Interpretive Comments

1. On 17 January 1944 there was a 603rd crash on a nighttime training flight. It then appears there was a desire to expand the 603rd and four openings were created by moving out the four co-pilots of four 603rd Squadron Commanders already at Rapid City. These four Squadron Commanders were Brodin, Lassegard, Hopkins, and Davidson. Jans, Jones, Jordan, and King then just newly commissioned officers out of Lubbock Air Cadet school and awaiting assignment in Salt Lake became their replacement co-pilots. The four new co-pilots were assigned as follows. Jerome Jans was assigned as co-pilot to the Unite Brodin crew, Ed Jones to the Leroy Lassegard crew, Ed Jordan to the Bob Hopkins crew, and Clarence H. King to the James G. Davidson crew.
   
   Of the four original co-pilots from the four 603rd Squadron Commanders, two became pilots with new crews and two were assigned co-pilots on other crews. The original co-pilot on the Hopkins crew was Steve Cullinan who became the pilot of another/new crew. The other assignments are not known.
2. I believe what Clarence King meant by being early promotions was that the increased responsibility of being on a Lead Crew led to the early promotions, although the 398th Original Crew list only shows Jones and Jordan as 1st Lieutenants as their final rank. Ed Jordan's promotion to 1st Lieutenant was 12 August 1944. All became 2nd Lieutenants on 7 January 1944 in Lubbock when they graduated from Air Cadets.
3. Ed Jordan became a Pilot (promoted from Co-Pilot) 30 June 1944. He received his own crew, the original Scott Crew on 3 August 1944. It is thought that the story about the engines was probably for missions during August. Ed received the DFC for his 6 August 1944 mission when he continued on after losing one engine and loss of power in another.

Summer 2004

Dave,

When we left Rapid City for England we first flew to either Grand Island or Lincoln Nebraska. I am not sure which as our plane went to both. On landing at the airport there was some trouble getting the tower on Hopkins' radio with this distraction they made a "Hot Landing" and locked up the brakes and flat spotted the ties. The tires on the plane had to be changed so they laid over an extra day.

When we went to takeoff, the pre-flight inspection showed a damaged upper surface on one wing. It looked as if it had been hit all over with a ball peen hammer. Or a knot in a tie down rope whipping in the wind could have done it.

We had to fly to another airport for the change that's where I get confused with the two airports. It took about a week to fix.

When we started our missions, the number was 25. When we started bombing France it was changed to 30 (shorter missions). After the invasion it was changed to 35 (safer missions??). That's where the description comes from. I also flew 33 missions.

C. King

Interpretive Comments

1. The data I have for the Hopkins' Crew shows they left Rapid City on 13 April 1944 and arrived in Grand Island, Nebraska the same day. I thought they along with the 398th stayed about a week at a staging area for the upcoming long flight to England. My interpretation of Clarence King's paragraph is that the Group/603rd Squadron flew into Grand Island, Nebraska and that is where the Hopkins plane flat tired and where the Davidson's aircraft's wing got pitted. Davidson and crew must then have flown to Lincoln for repairs.